What makes us cry over the death of a character in a novel, laugh at a comedy film, or feel genuine fear during a horror movie? If we know these are just representations—ink on paper or images on a screen—why do our emotions respond as if they were real? And what does this tell us about the relationship between art, narrative, and how we understand our own lives?

Today's guest is Derek Matravers, Professor of Philosophy at the Open University and Fellow of Churchill College, Cambridge. Matravers is a leading figure in aesthetics and philosophy of mind, particularly known for his rigorous analytical approach to understanding emotional responses to art and fiction. His work examines the puzzling nature of how we can have genuine emotions toward fictional characters and events, exploring the intersection of art with morality, imagination, and mental states. He has contributed significantly to debates about the definition of art, the ethics of artistic appreciation, and what it means to be transported into fictional worlds.

In this conversation, we explore one of philosophy's most intriguing puzzles: why we feel real emotions for things we know aren't real. Matravers challenges the traditional assumption that this is purely about fiction, arguing instead that the mystery lies in why we respond emotionally to any representations—whether fictional or real. We dive deep into how this connects to a more fundamental question about human nature: our tendency to understand our lives through narrative structures. From Disney movies shaping childhood ethics to the dangerous allure of seeing ourselves as the heroes of our own stories, we examine how the stories we consume shape the stories we tell ourselves. This isn't just academic philosophy—it's about understanding how art fundamentally influences our moral compass, our sense of identity, and even our mental health. As we increasingly live in a world saturated with representations and narratives, understanding this relationship becomes crucial for navigating everything from therapy to education to our daily decision-making.RetryClaude can make mistakes. Please double-check responses.