Can education cultivate meaning beyond success and utility? Is there a way of engaging with the world that is valuable in itself, not as a means to an end? And what might it look like to rediscover philosophy as a living, shared practice rather than a purely academic subject?

Talbot Brewer is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of Virginia, widely recognized for his work in moral philosophy, political theory, and moral psychology. His writing explores what it means to live well as a human being and challenges modern conceptions of ethics that reduce morality to rule-following or decision-making. Brewer is best known for his theory of “dialectical activity,” a vision of human engagement that sees learning, friendship, and love as meaningful ends in themselves rather than instruments for other goals.

In this conversation, we explore Brewer’s philosophy of activity, meaning, and the good life. We talk about how education has become overly focused on outcomes—grades, jobs, prestige—and how this focus obscures the deeper purpose of learning. Brewer describes dialectical activity as a form of participation in which the act itself is its own reward, where we are fully absorbed in the process of thinking, creating, or relating. Together, we unpack how this Aristotelian insight can transform the way we approach teaching, creativity, and even daily life.

We also discuss the meaning of the humanities, the relationship between philosophy and ordinary life, and why true understanding cannot be outsourced or inherited—it must be lived through. Brewer offers a moving defense of philosophy as something everyone already practices, consciously or not, and shows how reflection, curiosity, and love of wisdom are inseparable from the task of being human.