Can numbers tell us whether a student feels wonder, finds meaning, or believes in their own potential? Are we unintentionally reducing the purpose of education to something smaller and more mechanical than it should be?

Today’s guest is Shaun M. Dougherty, Associate Professor of Education and Policy at Boston College and a national expert on career and technical education, education accountability, and quantitative policy analysis. With a background in economics and years of on-the-ground experience as a high school teacher and administrator, Shaun brings a rare combination of practical insight and scholarly rigor to questions of how we measure and misunderstand learning.

In this episode, we dig deep into the philosophical and practical tensions behind standardized metrics in education. Shaun helps us explore not only what we measure (literacy, numeracy, test scores) but why we measure it and what gets lost in the process. We discuss the unintended consequences of test-based accountability, how different socioeconomic backgrounds experience metrics differently, and why it’s so difficult to capture qualities like meaning, engagement, and curiosity in data.

Shaun also offers a powerful case for expanding our definitions of educational success highlighting career and technical education (CTE) as one example where students often discover purpose and personal efficacy outside traditional metrics. With clarity, humility, and precision, Shaun invites us to rethink how education systems can balance rigor with relevance, data with dignity, and assessment with aspiration.